Quasars: Near or far?

The non amateur stuff. Hawking, black holes, that sort of thing

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Cliff
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Post by Cliff »

Dear Cigarshaped
I am a big fan of Halton Arp. I particularly admire him as a great observer and practical astronomer. However, I am not convinced about his cosmological theories. Somewhere I have a copy of his book "Seeing Red", although I have never read it properly(come to think of it I am not sure where the book is?).
Incidentally, although I only understand very basic astronomy, I have managed to image the Double Quasar Q0957+561 in Ursa Major, which is reputably nearly 10 billion light years away. So you could say that I have a ested interest in Arp being wrong. I certainly would not be happy for someone to prove the double quasar is only a few million light years from Earth.
However, has anyone provided any acceptable evidence that these high energy plasma things produce high redshifts, or is it just conjecture.
I understand that the Sun produces plasma ejections from time to time. One might expect some spectral analysis measurements to have be done with respect to Solar plasma. Whilst I accept that cosmological plasma related to quasars and the like is likely on a vastly greater scale than our Sun, the Sun is much closer and so spectra results might be expected to be achievable.
On top of that Gravitational Lensing does seem to fit with Einstein's work (even though he himself never thought they could be observed).
I also understand that although originally only the infamous double quasar only revealled two components, professional images have more recently shown four.
Best of luck from Cliff
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Post by Paul S »

Moreover, what about the tens of thousands of quasars with known redshifts that have been discovered over recent decades with the likes of Hubble, etc. Most of these quasars are nowhere near any active galactic nuclei.
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Post by joe »

I haven't the first clue about plasma physics and I'm therefore unable to look too deeply into all the wonderful shapes and the genuinely interesting phenomena regarding discharges and the like. Lensing is too easily dismissed by "plasmologists" as being statistically improbable without providing the statistics.

This plasma discharge hypothesis seems to have a solution to every aspect of every problem concerning the evolution of the cosmos. This is unlike a gravity based hypothesis which admits to many unknowns. I wonder, are there any problems with the plasma "theory"? A problem can be seen as an admission that work on the theory is ongoing and needs to be corrected as and when new data appears or it could be a sign that it is plain wrong. I'm sure that most scientists are aware of this and I can't imagine that there is some sort of conspiracy to sweep plasma cosmology under the rug.

I've said it here before and it's a small point but the tone of the dismissal of all Big Bang cosmology by D. E. Scott, et al, is not very appealing. It brings to mind the tone of creationists dismissing evolution.

I also worry about a hypothesis that allows the suggestion that the Earth had close encounters with Jupiter, Saturn, Venus and Mars within human history.
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Paul S
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Post by Paul S »

joe wrote:I wonder, are there any problems with the plasma "theory"?
Joe, the Wikipedia entry on Plasma Cosmology has a useful list under the "Comparison to mainstream cosmology" sub-heading.

It appears that plasma cosmology theories were ocassionally given the credence of serious debate up until the COBE data came along.

There's a probe going up in December looking for gamma rays from dark matter. If it's found, it should put a line under plasma cosmology once and or all.
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Post by joe »

Thanks, Paul. I don't know why I didn't pay Wiki a visit. :roll:
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