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ESA Publish A Roadmap for Fundamental Physics in Space
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Author:  david entwistle [ Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  ESA Publish A Roadmap for Fundamental Physics in Space

ESA have published their roadmap for fundamental physics in space. You can read the press release here and read the full 51 page report here. The key scientific objectives are listed as:

Quote:
    Are the fundamental principles of general relativity verified in Nature?
    What is the law of gravity at all scales?
    How does gravity behave in the strong field regime (close to black holes, neutron stars)?
    Is Lorentz invariance a symmetry of our Universe?
    Are the laws of quantum mechanics verified in Nature?
    Can we get insight into the possible unification of gravity and the quantum theory (Standard Model)?
    If a new form of energy i.e. dark energy accounts for the recent acceleration of the expansion of the Universe, what is its nature?
    If dark matter exists, what is its nature?
    What are the mechanisms of the acceleration of cosmic particles?

Author:  Cliff [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:22 pm ]
Post subject: 

Dear David
I read the press relief but couldn't pluck up courage to read the 51 page report.
I'm not entirely sure it all will mean very much to the ordinary layman.
One problem I think is that it would be very difficult if indeed possible to do any sort of cost benefit analysis to such physics (?).
Best wishes from Cliff

Author:  KendalAstronomer [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 2:07 am ]
Post subject: 

That's pretty much what these things are for. The Americans have also done their own version, defining the present priorities for astronomy, and so ranking the biggest potential projects in terms of how well they meet these priorities. Then, they get funded one by one (though it isn't certain even one will be funded). The American (NASA for space based observatories and another organisation for ground based ones) has the following objectives:

Searching for the first stars, galaxies and black holes
Seeking nearby habitable planets
Advancing understanding of the fundamental physics of the universe

The last one seems very vague... probably a get out clause...

Author:  david entwistle [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:13 am ]
Post subject: 

Cliff wrote:
Dear David
I read the press relief but couldn't pluck up courage to read the 51 page report.
I'm not entirely sure it all will mean very much to the ordinary layman.
One problem I think is that it would be very difficult if indeed possible to do any sort of cost benefit analysis to such physics (?).
Best wishes from Cliff


I haven't read the whole thing, but the parts I have are an easier and more interesting read than I'd expected. It wouldn't be fair to extract one small part from a detailed report and say that say that was the conclusion, but I think it say to say that the report is very favourable towards three current proposed missions.

Quote:
It is of vital importance to the field of fundamental physics that the missions presently approved (LISA PathFinder, ACES and MICROSCOPE) are launched with no further delay.


Author:  Cliff [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:27 pm ]
Post subject: 

Dear David and Kendall Astronomer
Tricky matters (?).
How can one assess the ultimate importance of properly understanding fundamental physics.
My own gut feeling is we'll never properly get to the bottom of it, no matter how much money gets thrown at it !
It may be a case of the law of diminishing returns applying big time.
That's not to say trying to understand fundamental physics doesn't matter at all. Arguably it's a matter of getting things into perspective.
However, it's easy to put things into perspective, say making a drawing of something (nowadays even making a 3d representation of something such as an ordinary solid object).
But properly assessing the benefits of fundamental physics is going to be much more difficult. It is perhaps a bit like trying to decide how important Trident might be. Will it save us or simply bankrupt us, whilst terrorists ?
Best wishes from Cliff
PS sorry about my previous typo "relief" !!!

Author:  Quasar [ Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ESA Publish A Roadmap for Fundamental Physics in Space

david entwistle wrote:
ESA have published their roadmap for fundamental physics in space. You can read the press release here and read the full 51 page report here. The key scientific objectives are listed as:

Quote:
    Are the fundamental principles of general relativity verified in Nature?
    What is the law of gravity at all scales?
    How does gravity behave in the strong field regime (close to black holes, neutron stars)?
    Is Lorentz invariance a symmetry of our Universe?
    Are the laws of quantum mechanics verified in Nature?
    Can we get insight into the possible unification of gravity and the quantum theory (Standard Model)?
    If a new form of energy i.e. dark energy accounts for the recent acceleration of the expansion of the Universe, what is its nature?
    If dark matter exists, what is its nature?
    What are the mechanisms of the acceleration of cosmic particles?

1.The fundamental principles of relativity are virtually unknown outside of our Solar system.
2. There is no law of gravity on all scales, all of the forces differ by huge amounts especially on Quantum levels.
3. We can only speculate how gravity behaves in strong fields.
4. Don't know about Lorentz??
5. No one knows how Quantum mechanics work.
6. Unification of gravity and Quantum fields? You would have more chance of seeing Buddy Holly walking down Broadway holding Elvis's hand.
7. Dark energy and dark matter are figments of people's imagination conveniently used to cement cracks in rubbish theories.
8. Acceleration of cosmic particles? They can't even tell you how a Photon can leave an Electron without creating an hole in time. I did once read a better explanation of how there would be no need for light to have an acceleration curve if it were stationary and it was matter that was the constant, moving through time at C. Apparantly though we are not allowed to suggest that matter moves through time at C and light is left behind because it might rattle a few cages.
My own personal belief is that most of what we are getting taught is absolute rubbish but thats my opinion.

Author:  Cliff [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:40 pm ]
Post subject: 

Dear Quasar
As I think we have found in our discussions in the past, I myself have some misgivings about accepted "modern cosmology", but I don't think I go quite as far as you do.
Ironically if my interpretaton of some multiverse theories is anything like right, I suppose seeing Buddy Holly walking hand in hand with Elvis might be quite ordinary. However, it's not something I think likely to happen myself, even if computer models might disagree with me.
A little while back I attended a talk by a young cosmologist who seemed to challenge some aspects of current cosmology. I found it quite refreshing to hear someone departing from the party line even if only a little.
Even so I personally think that any alternative cosmology should only be introduced very cautiously and be reasonably credible.
Best wishes from Cliff

Author:  joe [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ESA Publish A Roadmap for Fundamental Physics in Space

Quasar wrote:
I did once read a better explanation of how there would be no need for light to have an acceleration curve if it were stationary and it was matter that was the constant, moving through time at C. Apparantly though we are not allowed to suggest that matter moves through time at C and light is left behind because it might rattle a few cages.

Who is disallowing it?

Author:  Quasar [ Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:24 pm ]
Post subject: 

Cliff wrote:
Dear Quasar
As I think we have found in our discussions in the past, I myself have some misgivings about accepted "modern cosmology", but I don't think I go quite as far as you do.

That is a fair comment and you are perfectly entitled to sit on the fence in regards to such matters. Myself however, (after reading all the stuff on Tesla coils and the shelved technology out there) tend to have a more negative approach to the scientific fraternity. There is technology out there that is far in advance of anything we see today but the patents for this technology and the science behind it have been kept away from us for more sinister reasons that creative or positive ones. That type of technology would lead to breakthroughs in things we speak about on here. The hard truth is that there are people on this planet stopping us advancing for no other reasons than power and greed, oil rules i'm afraid.
Cliff wrote:
Ironically if my interpretaton of some multiverse theories is anything like right, I suppose seeing Buddy Holly walking hand in hand with Elvis might be quite ordinary. However, it's not something I think likely to happen myself, even if computer models might disagree with me.
A little while back I attended a talk by a young cosmologist who seemed to challenge some aspects of current cosmology. I found it quite refreshing to hear someone departing from the party line even if only a little.

You cannot challenge the status quo, your theory will be dissed and you will end up with no money just like Tesla did with a lot of his friends. Bankrupted and rediculed. Why? because oil rules and anyone sniffing anywhere near free energy will be delt with.
Cliff wrote:
Even so I personally think that any alternative cosmology should only be introduced very cautiously and be reasonably credible.
Best wishes from Cliff

As far as I am concerned the whole scientific fraternity has been poisoned beyond repair. 'Cautiously' you say? There are people on this planet who know a hell of a lot more than you think, the constant stream of clap trap and junk that Governments and establishments feed us on a regular basis is to keep us as far away from the truth as possible. Any advancement will be shelved and the patent locked away in some storage room out of reach. I know that this is a grim reality for all of us but that is the only way for greedy oil barons and power mongers to keep their filthy hands in control of this planet. The truth and the technology is out there but we will never see it.

Author:  Cliff [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:10 pm ]
Post subject: 

Dear Quasar
I have a book "The Fantastic Inventions of Nikola Tesla".
He certainly seems a very interesting character, but I'm inclined to think he went a bit too far.
In my opinion inventions can succeed or fail for a variety of reasons. You may be right in suggesting some good inventions get nowhere because they get surpressed (eg bought out by big companies) but not all "unsuccessful" inventions are deliberately wrecked by wreckers.
My Dad invented a useful device for use in the textile industry in the late 1950's. Unfortunately the UK textile industry was already in totally terminal decline by then. It would have needed something much more spectacular tha my Dad's patent to have reversed things. A few did get used though but not many - Dad got peanuts.
I suspect some of Tesla's many ideas might have been a bit over the top.
Genius, maybe (?), I cann't judge.
Best wishes from Cliff

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