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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:26 am 
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But when I close my fridge door the light does not go out (or does it ?).

Or following the recent death of the MI5 agent: http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2010/09/14/physicists-blame-police-for-death-of-mi6-agent/

Ian


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:52 pm 
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joe wrote:
Well, ok, but it all boils down to being able to describe what is observed. If there is an alternative, more suitable way to describe matter and motion then let's use it. We had different descriptions in the past but they have been superseded and corrected. That's what science has been doing for millenia and what we have at the moment seems to be the most useful. That's about all we can do for the time being, is it not? It may not be an exact description of reality but you seem to be wanting a description of the universe without observers - which is somewhat contradictory, to say the least.

Meanwhile, anyone can speculate. If a tree falls in the woods....etc.

A agree with what you have said and it is simple relativity that we all naturally adopt to work out the relevant forces we see around us. The problem with relativity is that it only deals with the local environment and bias's opinion outside of that environment. (remember what i said about the swinging bucket a while ago).
It is difficult to make decisions outside of the shell in which we live because we are so influenced by the relative aspects of how things are where we live. For example we might regard an accelerating spaceship with all the forces of enertia and so forth as gospel within our own shell but on a larger scale it might not be observed in the same way. This is because we cannot see the forces of our Solar system and Galaxy interacting within the Universe. We live in a spiral Galaxy which has a massive gravitational influence on everything we do and someone on the outside looking in has an advantage over someone on the inside looking out. Its all fun.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:13 pm 
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I'll just give you an example of what i'm talking about for anyone else who is reading these posts and is a little confused. Our Galaxy spins around at a certain velocity. For example, the area in which our solar system is located within the Milky way might spin through space at perhaps 100,000 MPH. All of the matter within our Solar system is spinning around the Galaxy at this velocity. If we accelerate a spaceship to a terminal velocity of 100,000MPH in the opposite direction of the spin of the Milky way then to an observer looking in the spaceship would be stationary while the rest of us are still travelling around at 100,000MPH. To us, because of our relative viewpoint we would swear blind that the spaceship is travelling 100,000MPH away from us. An observer looking in would swear blind the spaceship has become stationary in a spiral Galaxy while the rest of the matter carries on as normal. Who is right and who is wrong? These are the problems with relativity, they are valid to us within our world but invalid to someone else who has a different prospective.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:38 pm 
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Neither is right or wrong. Both are valid. It's not even difficult to imagine this extra galactic point of view. It is not a problem with relativity or anything else, as far as I'm aware. A few calculations and all relative viewpoints are clearly understood. Don't rocket scientists do something similar all the time when planning trajectories, gravity assists and orbits of probes?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:48 pm 
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joe wrote:
Neither is right or wrong. Both are valid. It's not even difficult to imagine this extra galactic point of view. It is not a problem with relativity or anything else. A few calculations and all relative viewpoints are clearly understood. Don't rocket scientists do something similar all the time when planning trajectories, gravity assists and orbits of probes?

your assumption is quite incorrect Joe. The simple reason being that the forces involved in the accelerating spaceship have been documented and written down as classical science within our world. They are far from classical.
The problem is not just our Galaxy, its the behaviour of our Galaxy in conjuction with other Galaxies and those Galaxies within a cluster and so forth. The stark reality of the matter is that we cannot possibly assume any form of velocity because we have not got a clue where any neutral positions are located. Even if we did reach 99% of light speed we would have still no absolute right to claim any velocity at all.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:00 pm 
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Quasar wrote:
your assumption is quite incorrect Joe.

Ok, I'll shut up then.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:13 pm 
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joe wrote:
Quasar wrote:
your assumption is quite incorrect Joe.

Ok, I'll shut up then.

I didn't ask you to shut up. I am merely pointing out that the references in which you continually use classical science are wrong in my opinion.
We had this discussion many moons ago and I believe that this argument and the reasoning behind it is why classical science is trying to unify Quantum mechanics with relativity when it cannot be acheived. It cannot be acheived because of the arguments I have put forward.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:34 pm 
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To do this right and to have more answers and a clearer picture I believe this is what needs to be done. I'd completely scrap all of the Newtonian, Einsteinian, Maxwellian, Hubble and Hawking ideas completely. Then I would concentrate on Quantum mechanics and spend all the money down there and never mind the LHC. Once we understand Quantum levels I would reach out to the next level and concentrate on our energy there because I strongly believe we have started off in the wrong place and got it completely wrong.
End of my participation on this forum - goodbye.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:17 pm 
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joe wrote:
Quasar wrote:
your assumption is quite incorrect Joe.

Ok, I'll shut up then.


In the battle of stamina - we have seen it all here before. Congratulations Joe because your "staying power" if far far stronger than anybody else's but there are better things to do with one's life. You can get more sense about the science, Universe, research methodology, etc. from e.g. the Pope.

(I just wish this forum had the "Ignore" facility found on many other forums).

Ian


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:43 pm 
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Deimos wrote:
joe wrote:
Quasar wrote:
your assumption is quite incorrect Joe.

Ok, I'll shut up then.


In the battle of stamina - we have seen it all here before. Congratulations Joe because your "staying power" if far far stronger than anybody else's but there are better things to do with one's life. You can get more sense about the science, Universe, research methodology, etc. from e.g. the Pope.

(I just wish this forum had the "Ignore" facility found on many other forums).

Ian

This post should be removed, it is neither relevant or appropriate to this thread.

[The rest of this post has been edited - Joe]


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