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 Post subject: The sun and weather
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:07 am 
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I'm not sure this would come under Astropyshics? Not sure where else I can put this.

Last July there was no sunposts on the sun. And if it continues we could go into an Ice age.

It could be causing all of this rain and cloud. There is a theory behind it and it's not a silly question to ask.

With greater sunspot activity there will be elss cloud cover and maybe higher temperatures near the Earth's surface, as cosmic rays can make it through, when the sun has solar flare activity.

Cloudless skies and solar activity has been observed for many many years. And having a low solar cycle there has been a mini ice age.

The solar flare cause solar storms that shield the earth a bit. This causes the clouds to form - maybe!? But the high level of solar flare, blow away the cloud cover, causing the earth to get a sun burn!

So maybe! No sunspots = rain? which will cause flooding and horrible summers.

But it isn't a local thing.

If we take a look at July last year with the solar cycle Spotless Days from space.com
Stretch: 14 days
2009 total: 156 days (76%)
Since 2004: 667 days
Typical Solar Min: 485 days



The solar flare cause solar storms that shield the earth a bit. This causes the clouds to form - maybe!? But the high level of solar flare, blow away the cloud cover, causing the earth to get a sun burn!

We are at solar cycle low, and much of the Earth is in low temps.
Technology cannot predict what will happen next. So who know what will happen.

Take a look at this for example
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Thames_frost_fairs

This happened when we had an all time solar low. Nothing but solid ice for miles on end.

If we do have an ice age, it will cool down gradually and will eb a long term thing and not happen straight away. I hope!

The solar cycle happens every 11 years. The next 6 years is predicted to be at it's lowest.

Maybe we could see the ice age in the next 10 years, that's what i think anyway. Maybe it's the sun causing global warmign and not us?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sunspot_Numbers.png

The red is very high solar activity.

The chart will change as we go into the cooling period. But until we observe the effects, can we prove it?

We will know being in an ice age when we see the ice grow.

http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/image ... dict_l.gif

By that chart we could be in an ice age by 2020.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:52 pm 
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The frost fairs disappeared from the Thames when the old London Bridge was demolished in the early 1800s.
The bridge was slowing down the flow of water, causing the water to freeze; this ceased when the bridge was removed.
I wouldn't bet on the frost fairs as being accurate indicators of colder-than-usual winters at that time.
What do the tree rings have to say about the frost fairs' period?

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Last edited by brian livesey on Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:25 pm 
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The Thames was also much wider and slower in general pre-18C allowing river freezing. The demolition of the old London Bridge coincided with the building of new docks and a narrowing of the river.
brian livesey wrote:
What do the tree rings have to say about the frost fairs' period?

That there was less growth apparently.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:45 pm 
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Thanks for the data, Joe. I won't be trawling through all of it, but I've found the answer to the tree rings.
It seems that the rings narrowed during the colder period, then, began to widen in the last century.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:00 pm 
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Oh hum, there was me thinking I had brains :roll: :!:


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 Post subject: Re: The sun and weather
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:49 pm 
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Sunset_Twilight wrote:

Maybe we could see the ice age in the next 10 years, that's what i think anyway.

Maybe it's the sun causing global warmign and not us?



10 years is probably a bit too soon.....but may not be !

However it is extremely likely that signs of the arrival of next ice age will begin to be seen within this century.



And yes.....It is the sun that causes global warming.

Although as mentioned previously....The Ice Age cometh.


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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 7:51 pm 
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Little puzzled here.

You say: as cosmic rays can make it through.
Cosmic rays are very high energy particals and photons, they are more energetic then X-rays. They make it through lead. So cloud cover or not they come through. The 200 miles of atmosphere is what protects us from cosmic rays not clouds.

"The next 6 years is predicted to be at it's lowest."
Thought that the minimum had been a bit longer then expected and that we should be heading upwards, so any prediction will be for an increase. Even if not then as we haven't had any sunspots for a few years, 2 weeks ago the sun was featureless = 0 sunspots. We cannot get less then none so it stays as it has been.

Please think in terms of the sun. So far it has been around 4,500,000,000 years approximately and we squeek when something is 3-5 years out. I recall seeing the numerous sunspots in 2002, so on an 11 year cycle that means a minimum at 2007-2008. Just 2 years ago. Why the panic over something that is 2 years longer in the life of the sun that is 4.5billion years ?

"The solar flare cause solar storms that shield the earth a bit."
Solar storms do not shield the Earth, Solar flares can cause Solar storms and if they are emitted at the right angle they thump into the earth.
Look up Aurora, charged particals from the solar winds interact with the earths magnetic fields.


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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:53 am 
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As you said, the atmosphere gives some protection against cosmic rays, but let's not forget the crucial part played by the sun's magnetic field ( heliopause ), too, in deflecting the rays.

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 5:55 pm 
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Aren't we a bit far out for the heliopause to give us much protection ?

Do high energy gamma rays get deflected by magnetic fields? The low energy ones that we see as sun shine don't, nor the infra red and ultra violet that gives us a tan.

Know that high energy charged particles can be trapped/deflected by a magnetic field but not a high energy photon. If they do then by creating a decent magnetic field we could make telescopes without the need of lenses and mirrors.


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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 6:18 pm 
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The Heliopause surrounds the whole of the Solar System (Oort Cloud also?). The cosmic rays referred to are those that come from outside the Solar System, although there are some that come from the Sun. Our atmosphere and magnetic field helps to protect us too.

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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 12:32 pm 
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Dear Joe
I accept and do not disagree with what you just said.
However, I do get frustrated sometimes with what astronomers\sosmologists like to tell us. In particular I found it amusing recently that after telling us for many years that Jupiter has been our (ie Earth's) protector in helping reduce the number of comet that impact Earth, on the recent "Seven Wonders of the Solar System" BBC TV series Professor Brian Cox said that on the other hand Jupiter might be deflecting comets towards Earth.
In view of Jupiter's possible potentially opposing actions with regards to comets, perhaps Jupiter makes no difference with regards cometary impacts whatsoever.
Or perhaps it's like matter versus antimatter - with matter winning.
That might still leave us with the problem. does Jupiter deflect more comets away from Earth, or at us ! ? !
Of course that may not have much baring on the question of such things as cosmic rays, but it does make me think that perhaps we (and astronomers and cosmologists as well) might take too many things for granted.
Best wishes from Cliff


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 12:58 pm 
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See the thread "Outside the Heliopause" in this forum.

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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 5:47 pm 
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The heliopause is the theoretical boundary where the Sun's solar wind is stopped by the interstellar medium.

It is where the solar wind's strength is no longer great enough to push back the stellar winds of the surrounding stars. Mind you I have seen it talked of as the same in magnetic terms, and not in solar wind pressure.

So the solar winds are passing earth and continue out until equalibrium is achieved. Out magnetic field will deflect some, some are captured. But the solar winds will still strike earth. Some of what is coming out of the sun is simple high energy photons. The hydrogen burning reaction PP1 emits a few good ones, positron/electron annihilation. Not looked into the detail of PP2 and PP3.

Point was that we are getting hit by high energy photons in excess of gamma rays and some high energy particles, charged or otherwise and that a cloud isn't going to stop them.


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